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First off, thanks for being here. The people in my peer group (outside of my little family) don't really believe in botox and can't give me honest or practical advice on the situation. They're mostly in the "learn to love yourself the way you are" camp and while I do, I am also for self improvement! So thanks for letting me share this with you.
My details. I am 38 years old and unhappy with the horizontal lines across my forehead. For the past few years, I’ve been getting Botox to “soften” them. Unfortunately, every time I’ve gone in for Botox, the injector injects my frontalis, the muscle relaxes and my brow lowers, most of my eyelids disappear and I look very tired. I’ve gone to several skilled injectors and this has happened every single time. I am so frustrated because you’d think *someone* would know how to do it without causing a brow drop.
So question 1 is this: Is there any way to soften those horizontal lines without injecting the frontalis? I've only been given small amounts in the frontalis and it still sinks every time.
I’m thinking maybe I’m one of those people whose brow is already low and who is just not a candidate for Botox to smooth out forehead lines. But then that doesn’t make sense because there’s so much talk of Botox browlifts. I just feel terrible because I keep vowing never to have Botox again, but then the forehead lines come back and they are almost as annoying as having a low brow and no eyelids.
Can anyone give me a clue as to what the problem might be? I just want to cry because I had Botox done in my medial frontalis, procerus and corrugator 3 weeks ago and can hardly look in the mirror because I have an almost flat brow. I went back to the same injector 4 days ago and she did the edge of my eyebrows (she decided to be conservative the first time, which is why we didn't do it 3 weeks ago) to see if that would lift things up and I’ve got my fingers crossed that this will help. In the past, injectors of done the frontalis and edge of eyebrows but not the corrugator because they said injecting the corrugator might cause brow drop. The new injector says the others were wrong about not injecting the corrugator and that should be done too.
This leads to my second question which is:
Are some people’s brows too low for botox? I have been seriously considering a brow lift and my plastic surgeon (who has never done the botox....I've gone to his skincare people) recommends a coronal. That seems so invasive and painful, but he's a skilled surgeon so it would probably look great. I just really thought I could avoid a brow lift by getting botox, but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Thanks for letting me vent. I hope some of you might have some empathy, advice or past experience.
One positive thing I can say for all the people who’ve injected my brow is they've refused to go near the muscle that causes eyelid droop.
I am not an expert but have had botox a bunch of times and have talked to my ps about this specifically. he told me that we all use our forehead muscle to lift the brow. as we age the brow drops naturally and we compensate for it by contracting our forhead muscle andt his is what gives us the lines. if you get botox in the forehead this muscle is paralyzed and the brow will drop if you were using it to hold it up. he told me that there are some people who should never have botox in the forehead because of this. these are the people that need surgery. i don't think there is any way to get rid of the lines with botox without putting it in the forehead muscle. sounds like you are just not a candidate for the botox because you need the muscle to hold the eyebrow up. my ps said that it is important for docs to know this so they can tell patients if botox in forehead would be bad for them. probably a mistake by your docs to not recognize this rather than a bad injection technique.
Thanks! You know, I think this is the issue. What gets me is that I've been to different botox injectors and no one has said "You're just not a candidate.". They've asked me to squinch up my face and have tried to asses where my muscles are, but no one mentioned the fact that my frontalis was holding up my brow. The doctors who I've consulted with (mainly about a forehead lift) both kind of shrugged when I mentioned I'd like to try it with botox and neither one said "No, don't do it!" or "Yes, definitely try botox first.". They seemed to push for the lift, but they're surgeons and that's sort of what you'd expect. If they'd just told me "You know, your brow is just too low and that's why you've had bad results with Botox" then I would have just accepted that and would be well on my way to surgery.
It took me 2 bad botox experiences to realize that I was no longer a candidate for it after doing it for 7 years. First I thought that the first dr just injected too low, giving me completely hooded eyes. I was truly shocked when I first noticed, after I saw my reflection in a window! After it wore off (months later) I went back to my regular PS at the time and the same thing happened again. When I complained about how awful I looked (the hooding made me look 10 yrs older), I thought that, once again, he injected incorrectly. Then he told me that the reason it looked like that was because the botox WAS working (!!!) and that my brow was getting too heavy for it. Of course, he didn't offer any refund! That was when I started thinking about FL's. If anyone is thinking of a brow lift, best to read Dr Yang's posts about it on this board. I had the works, but I think the upper bleph could have been enough for me to fix the forehead. Everything else looks fabulous, but my brows look the same (except now more assymetrical).
i am one of these people who uses Botox to lift the brows. I have to stress though I DO NOT have horisontal lines, only line in glabella area, so I get Botox for this line and also ask my injector to lift my brow a little with it.She injects area right next to the tail of my brow and it does the trick by lifting it up. I have done it 3 times and 3 times had the same result. it makes lot of sense that people with horizontal lines and low eye brows should not get Botox because of the placement of it. They usually inject it in upper part of forehead , the muscles relax , forehead becomes smoother but unfortunately it is all at expense of eye brow/upper li which drops.
slimm, I will take a look at Dr. Yang's post. I definitely think a forehead lift is in my future but am trying to decide whether I should go endocscopic or coronal. Botox is definitely not the solution.
Natasha, I suppose without the horizontal lines there's not much of a need to inject the frontalis. If you inject the glabella, you get a little lift near the inner eye and the tail of the eyebrows would give you the rest of the lift. I guess my problem was the injectors were trying to get rid of the horizonal lines....at my request!
I would never think of asking for my money back, but what gets me is that no one told me flat out that my brow was too low for it to work as a horizonal line smoother.
SusieHM wrote: I would never think of asking for my money back, but what gets me is that no one told me flat out that my brow was too low for it to work as a horizonal line smoother.
Oh no, don't get me wrong. I didn't ask for a refund and would be too embarrassed to as well. I just thought it funny that the dr said that the botox was working and that's why my eyelids got so heavy, when that's what I told him my problem was in the first place! So I paid $600 to look worse and he said it was working. Couldn't he have been able to tell earlier? The next dr I went to said that my lids were now too heavy for botox. BTW, the botox works great now that I've had my surgery!
Don't worry, I didn't think you were considering a refund. But yes, I'm with you in that I feel a little bad about paying to look worse.
As an update, the injections to the tail of the brow seemed to help a little. I can see more of my eyelid and don't look quite so angry. Still not happy with the low brow, but am enjoying reading all about brow lifts now.
I am relieved to see that this has happened to someone ese, misery loves company! I do empathize with you as I really am not happy with the outcome and have been hoping that people donot notice my tired eyes.
I had botox done over a year ago and had some drooping of my eyes then and my doctor gave me drops to make the eyes appear bigger. Of course the botox wore off and I did not do it again until last month. I explained to my new PS that this had happened before and I really did not want that to happen again.
I have a really low forehead and have always worn my hair partially over my forehead (bangs or a fringe) to disguise the wrinkles that have formed over time (I am in my 40s). He did the botox and to my horror it happened again. I looked in the mirror four or so days later and my eyes which are usually large and not heavy lidded at all, looked awful. My PS took photos and he said he thought I looked better but clearly I did not. It is now four weeks later and I have some movement back in my forehead (a lot of money for a short result, but in this instance I am very pleased that it is not lasting longer!)
On a happier note, I have some little lines around my mouth which he filled with a very thin filler and it looks great.
So in short, I think for people with low forehead and quite deep horizontal lines, botox is not a solution. I will not do it again but may have the crows feet and the small vertical lines between my eyes done again.
I also have low brows. When I get botox, I now insist on getting a 'preemptive botox brow lift' whenever I get the forehead horizontals done. This helps the problem of saggy, droopy brows quite a bit. Unless I do this, my upper eye area becomes 'heavy'. Note: While I have naturally low brows, I did not have a heavy lid prior to getting botox and it occurred immediately after I got my horizontals injected--like within days. Obviously I did not develop heavy lids/droopy brows and become a candidate for upper bleph overnight due to the 'aging process'--my upper eye area, up to this point, was not only not 'hooded' and puffy, but actually hollow, where I could easily put shadow into the crease where the eye socket is (iykwim). So it was obviously the botox creating this new and unwelcome look.
I made the mistake of skipping my pre-emptive botox brow lift last week because I was only getting the horizontals touched-up. Now I'm sitting here with low brows that make me look like a sad puppy because the outer corner of the lid area slants downward. Next time I will absolutely insist that if the horizontals are going to be injected, then the opposing muscles under the brows must also be inactivated with the botox as well in order to offset the lack of muscle activity to raise the brows.
So, ladies, if you haven't tried the injections under the brows at the same time as you get the forehead horizontals botoxed, then give it a shot (pardon the pun). It's only a few more units/dollars and it could help immeasurably. Also , I think I've decided I will live with a few wrinkles directly above the brows and avoid botox in the lower part of the forehead so I still have some ability to raise the brows. As long as I have the upper part of the forehead done it should be 'good enough' as nothing is worth the aging effect of these low-hanging brows post-botox.
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