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I have been sick about those little lip lines upper and lower lip. I went a skin specialtist last week. She did only 7.5% simply because she claimed not to know my skin and would rather start slowly.I could respect her mindset. I knew this would more then likely be a waste as I do 40% glycolics. I am rather hestitant with the TCA peels. So far I have noticed very little improvement and the lines actually look worse. I want to increase it next month when I return to her. Do you think up to 25% would be the a safe step. I am hoping she does not want to only go up to 12 or 15 for I feel it would be another waste. The charge was $35.00 so not to bad. I also considering fractional laser but cost is another issue. Fillers are another option. Thanks.
It is normal after a TCA for your lines and wrinkles to look way worse before they get better. The healing phase is not pretty!
But yeah, that was a pretty mild peel, but smart to start off that way.
We can't really recommend how strong your doctor should go, but maybe she could do a 15 and then put a second coat if there is no frosting with the first?
I have been doing jessner/TCA at 20% (two layers), and I've done 5 (only 3 at that strength) and there is improvement for sure, but they are not gone yet and may never be completely gone. They are much softened though. I think it definitely takes a series. One, even at 25%, probably won't completely take care of them if they are prominent now.
That's an awesome price though, I'd just inch my way up in a series of TCAs if I were you. JMO...
Yes she did apply 2 coats and it did frost. It feels somewhat like sand paper in some spots but no real issue. I guess my thoughts are if one waits in bewtween peels as in how long (4-6 weeks?) is that what you are waiting in between? You have done 5 of the combined then we are talking about 5-6 months before we see any improvement? Not a very quick turn around I must say. I have researched this subject on the web and it seems a TCA peel combined with another procedure works best, as in laser. She was honest with me and said she could diminsish them quite a bit through TCA's but did not promise they would be completely gone as you say. So if she did 2 layers at 7.5% is that equivalent to 15%? Is that how one would figure that I wonder? Oh the joys of aging. UGH!!
But the way I see it, nothing is a quick fix. Like Retin A can take a year to see results, but in a lifetime, what's a year? So many left to live...
Just my thoughts.
I don't know how it works to do two layers, but I don't think it doubles the intensity. I don't think that two at 7.5 is the same as one at 15. I think the 15 is stronger. But I could be wrong on that. But I don't believe that when I am doing two at 20% I am getting a 40. I did 3 layers, actually, on my chin once.
If all goes well with a laser yeah, you may be able to get rid of them in one go actually, but very expensive. But as far as doing just the TCA, I think it takes higher percentages, and probably a series. I guess it all depends on just how bad the lines are. How deep.
I am doing minimum of 6 weeks in between peels now, but I don't think you need to wait that long with the lower percentages. I guess it depends on your skin and how long it takes to completely heal before you do it again. Probably much faster with the lighter percentages peel, but we are all different.
I think since I am doing them at home it is not so daunting. If I had to keep going back to the doctor it would seem hard to fathom having to do a series. Although that is a great price you are getting.
She lives practically within walking distance. She will do a full face for $135.00 which is not to bad. I am seeing blue peels with Obagi for $450.00 in various places. I am not sure about that peel, for full face. I am just interested in at the moment the lipstick lines. What does the vinegar soaks do? She told me to go that every 2 hours on 2-5 days. I believe it takes 4 weeks for the skin to shed and grow new so that would be the recommended time between peels. I won't be back till 4 April as I will be away. I know it all takes time and there is no quick fix but sometimes we have an event to go attend, we want to look our best sooner than the "later."
I think your best bet is the laser in the case of having an event coming up, and then maybe maintenance with peels after that.
I believe the vinegar soaks are used both to help soften up the skin (gets that hard, crusty/glue like feel to it), and help fight infection and kill bacteria. That's my understanding anyway. Will clean the face so that you can then put your cream/oil on again.
Annie, I have been emailing and inquiring and most PS say to just be done with it and do the laser. One said TCA might be waste of my time. It all depends on the depth of the lines I would guess. I am going to have her do a complete face of TCA. What % do you use for a full face. I have done many 40% glycolics so I feel my face is prepped. I do worry about pigmentation issues. Do you use that hydroquoine cream for awhile? That is recommended for TCA peels. If so where can you purchase this w/o a script these days? I had it years ago. Thanks.
I did not use the Hydroquinone to prepare for the peels, but I have some that I had used on my chin, trying to get it to lighten up. Also used it on my hands.
The one I use is a Paula's Choice. It is 2% Hydroquinone and 2% Beta Hydroxy. I do use it more now on my face, as I am using copper peptides and I use this as an exfoliator. But not regularly, as I typically use other BHA/AHAs without the Hydroquinone. I'm really just trying to use up the tube I have. The peels have lightened my face and body nicely without having to use the hydroquinone.
If you are doing regular glycolic peels you are probably just fine without more prep. I would think so anyway.
Right now I have been using TCA 20%, two layers for the face. But I built up to that. You may be fine to do that strength though. I would definitely go with the recommendation of your doctor, and make sure she knows you want to safely go higher than the last peel. My next peel is going to be one layer, 25% TCA. I think that will actually be milder because I usually use Jessner first, and I am not doing that. I want a good peel with less down time.
I wish I could help more with specific suggestions, but I just don't know enough to be able to do that and would leave it up to your doctor. To actually target the lines though, you would need to go quite high I think.
You have been helpful and I thank you. Well as of today I am really peeling. I look like I have a growth around my corner lip down to the chin. It is flaking a lot for only being 7.5%. I am somewhat disspointed for the area where the actual fine lines are located I don't see much peeling in that area!! She gave me cream to put on twice a day along with the vinegar soaks then apply the cream. That is great you can do 25% TCA at home. I bet you have a great skin. I will keep you posted. Thanks again Annie.
No problem at all and I am glad to help. Even without visible peeling you are getting a good peel, and going stronger next time will be even better. It was really a good idea to start conservative like you did. The next peel will probably take even better since you've had this one (even if you stayed at same strength, you may see more action next time).
Thank you regarding my skin. Well, it is severely sun damaged from my childhood, so I'm just trying to hang on I guess. I will never be able to undo all the damage from those crazy years, but I sure am glad we have these peels available to be able to do this at home or else I would not be able to do this.
Please keep in touch here and let us know how this one continues and what you end up doing next time.
I think I may have spoke to soon for now it is peeling heavily all over the place where the peel was placed. I am glad to see this as if this were my entire face I would be hiding out someplace for sure. It is bad enough walking around looking like a peeling snake in just the one area!! Yes now I have to agree the lower % was more than likely the best for me. I do not itch, or hurt in anyway. I just look like I have some sort of crud, just peeling nothing more or less. The girl did give me cream to put on and only this cream in that area so that for a small amount of time helps the peeling. I wonder how many days this will last? It is now 8 days since I had the original peel.
LOL well that's a delayed reaction for sure! Sounds like it was the perfect percentage for you. I'll bet you will be very happy with your results.
I find that it helps peeling to progress if I stand in the hot shower and keep wetting a wash cloth and holding it over my face for 30-60 seconds. Just a warm wash cloth. That and the steam from the shower seems to help my peeling progress. Hopefully yours won't go on too long.
Please keep letting us know how it goes. More proof that we each respond so differently to these peels!
I was passing through and I thought I might contribute a few thoughts on treating “lipstick lines”.
Let me begin by stating that deep creases around the mouth are without a doubt the most difficult to treat rhytids (wrinkles) on the face. Even with the best technology available, multiple treatments using several modalities are typically required for a complete correction.
That being said, the best treatment for deep creases around the mouth is prevention. Daily sunscreen combined with daily Retin-A are the most affordable and also two of the most effective preventative measures.
The ever growing number of chemical peels available can be confusing to patients as well as doctors. Common superficial peels include Obaji, Glycolic Acid, Salicylic Acid, <20% TCA, Jessner’s, Glycerol. The advantages of superficial peels is that they are very affordable and have little if any downtime. They can be applied without the presence of a doctor or anesthesia. The downside of superficial peels is that they require multiple treatments, usually every 2-4 months to produce a meaningful result.
I have never heard of a 7.5% TCA peel. I would expect several treatments to produce a significant benefit. And given the low cost of this peel, that may be a reasonable strategy for you. A double application of a 7.5% peel does not equate to a 15% solution. I would also not push the envelope with someone that is not comfortable using higher concentrations.
I will outline a few strategies for consideration. The actual price will depend on the geography of the practice as well as the training of the provider. I have included average numbers for different treatments.
A. Very fine creases that are beginning to develop around the mouth can frequently be improved using a variety of treatments. Smokers lines caused by hyperactive muscles can be softened using a small amount of Botox. The remaining creases can be smoothed using an injectable filler. 1. Botox x 12 units ($200) 2. Juvederm x 1 syringe ($600) 3. Retin-A ($75)
B. Medium-depth creases respond well to 30-35% TCA peels or CO2 lasers. Lasers are a little more effective then medium strength chemical peels. CO2 lasers are expensive for doctors to buy and will consequently cost more then peels. 1. 30-35% TCA peel ($2,000-$4,000) 2. CO2 laser ($4,000-$6,000)
C. Very deep smokers lines are difficult to treat. Complete correction frequently requires both resurfacing and dermal fillers. Deep creases respond well to dermabrasion or phenol chemical peels. Both of these treatment typically require sedation in a surgical setting. The remaining fine creases can be softened using a dermal filler.
As you can see, there are a variety of treatments available for lipstick lines. The more effective treatments will have a substantial increase in cost. It may be reasonable to try several superficial chemical peels before pursuing something more expensive. And remember, two of the most effective and cheapest treatments are sunscreen and Retin-A.
With all due respect we all know that sunscreen is a given. When you all ready have the lines it is a tad to late for the sunscreen sermon. I don't smoke but I use to many years ago. I would imagine they contribute to the little lines, but it is what it is at this point in time.
Beanie sprout, I went back today and got 10% 2 layers. I peeled very well with the 7% but I saw little to any improvement. When I walked in she tried to tell me there was improvement. I think this is the old "power of suggestion." But I am not buying it. I am getting impatient and will more than likely go for the bigger guns. I think a laser or filler or both soon. She will work up to 25% and still charge $35.00 not sure where the prices of $2K come from? So I will wait and see what happens. Just thought I would check in.
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