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Clarification on Obagi please.

Ask about Obagi Skin Care and get answers from licensed Obagi skin care specialists and Obagi users from the community.

Postby MissJ521@aol.com » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:03 pm

Wow Kaydee,

Thanks for your well thought out informative answer as it certainly does clarify most of the questions I had about the system. So they did test the whole obagi 'system' compared to a system also using the 2 scripts but with other common products used that would tend to increase efficacy. This is what I understand you are conveying to me. Yes?
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Postby KadeeBelleMD » Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:11 pm

MissJ521@aol.com wrote:Wow Kaydee,

Thanks for your well thought out informative answer as it certainly does clarify most of the questions I had about the system. So they did test the whole obagi 'system' compared to a system also using the 2 scripts but with other common products used that would tend to increase efficacy. This is what I understand you are conveying to me. Yes?


Yes. That's what the testing surmounted to. But, as we chatted over on the DIY post, I'm sure there are great DIY, or otherwise, substitutions for the obagi products. I'd just caution the average skin care user that finding that perfect syngery, pH balance, and efficacy amongst other products is perhaps not for the faint of heart. :) Thanks MissJ. :)

Best, KD
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Postby Dee26 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:46 am

Hey Dee,

So the blender works by employing glycerin and saponins. The glycerin is a sugar alcohol which acts as a humectant, which is also water soluble and hydroscopic (meaning it attracts water). Since our skin is roughly 70% water, this aids in penetration. Also, glycerin is just an impure from of glycerol, which has a tendency to be more "fat" soluble, but still considered hydrophilic. Another huge component to glycerin in skin care products is that is plasticized the skin, making skin conductance independent of water content; so even if your not fully hydrated at approx. 70%, your product is stilling working for you. (plus, glyercin is said to be quite a good moisturizer, due to it's hydroscopic properties no doubt).

Saponins are most often thought of as natural detergents. They are amphiphilic, meaning they love both water and oils, making them perfect for absorption into our skin. They significantly increase transepidermal conductance, making for better stratum corneum permeability, deeper, and more even penetration!

Hope this helps!

cheers


Thanks Kadee! I always wanted to know how it worked, so thanks for taking your time out to explain it all. :D

Just one more question, I've noticed the c-rx system only has a cleanser and no toner. Does that mean if I were to use the c-rx cleanser instead of the nu derm cleanser, I could skip toner altogether? Does it have a lower ph than nu derm cleanser? I use all the products in the nu derm system except blender and clear (had to stop with HQ products so now using another product with kojic acid in place of blender).

Thanks again,

Dee
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Postby KadeeBelleMD » Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:29 pm

Hey Dee,

You are right. No toner would be needed. The extra vit c in the cleanser drops the pH of your skin just enough to void the toner. That's what I do for ease of use, actually. :)

Best, KD
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Postby Dee26 » Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:03 pm

KadeeBelleMD wrote:Hey Dee,

You are right. No toner would be needed. The extra vit c in the cleanser drops the pH of your skin just enough to void the toner. That's what I do for ease of use, actually. :)

Best, KD


Oh Excellent, thanks again Kadee.

Dee :D
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Postby KadeeBelleMD2B » Mon Feb 25, 2008 8:45 pm

you're welcome.





Sorry, changed my name due to some people not reading the sig, which says MD in the making. :) Cheers.
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Postby Fernia » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:14 pm

KadeeBelleMD2B,

Thanks for the info...I am now on the look out for a good anitoxidant!

-Fernia
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Postby DCNGA » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:46 pm

You might consider something with Reservatol or idebenone-best- (COQ10-good) in it as an antioxidant. Lots 'o DIY stuff out there which contains either, or both.

Good luck.

D
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Obagi Study

Postby j-lynn » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:54 am

According to the Obagi website, the study did not compare Obagi with retin-a and hydroquinone together:

"In the 387-person randomized study, patients received one of four treatment strategies over a 24-week period:

the Obagi Nu-Derm System, a regimen of systematically dosed over-the-counter (OTC) products with hydroquinone plus tretinoin;

hydroquinone plus OTC products;

tretinoin plus OTC products, and

OTC products alone"

After 12 and 24 weeks of treatment, improvements using the Obagi Nu-Derm System were greater than and statistically superior to those observed with the other treatment regimens. At 12 weeks, the Obagi Nu-Derm System patients experienced a two-fold improvement in fine lines and wrinkles than those observed in all other groups. At 24 weeks, Obagi Nu-Derm patients experienced a four-fold improvement in perioral and periocular wrinkles, as well as markedly greater improvements in fine lines and laxity compared to other groups. No adverse events were reported in the Obagi Nu-Derm System group.
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Re: Obagi Study

Postby KadeeBelleMD2B » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:19 pm

j-lynn wrote:According to the Obagi website, the study did not compare Obagi with retin-a and hydroquinone together:

"In the 387-person randomized study, patients received one of four treatment strategies over a 24-week period:

the Obagi Nu-Derm System, a regimen of systematically dosed over-the-counter (OTC) products with hydroquinone plus tretinoin;

hydroquinone plus OTC products;

tretinoin plus OTC products, and

OTC products alone"

After 12 and 24 weeks of treatment, improvements using the Obagi Nu-Derm System were greater than and statistically superior to those observed with the other treatment regimens. At 12 weeks, the Obagi Nu-Derm System patients experienced a two-fold improvement in fine lines and wrinkles than those observed in all other groups. At 24 weeks, Obagi Nu-Derm patients experienced a four-fold improvement in perioral and periocular wrinkles, as well as markedly greater improvements in fine lines and laxity compared to other groups. No adverse events were reported in the Obagi Nu-Derm System group.



Note the bolded parts - they call the system an OTC (as in they are not prescription products, only the retin-a and hydroq are...)

So, yes they did test the "system" with R/H... ?

Also, if you read the full study, you will see they used OBAGI substitutes for the retin-A only, hydroquinone only groups, making it a comparison of not only the efficacy of the retin-A plus hydroquinone, but also the efficacy of the OTC products themselves.
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Postby j-lynn » Sat Dec 20, 2008 2:24 pm

Sorry for my lack of clarity - (I did read the study), they four protocols in the study were: 1. The Obagi system (including retin a & hydroquinone)
2. Cetaphil, Neutrogena Healthy Defense daily moisturizer and retin a.
3. Cetaphil, Neutrogena Healthy Defense daily moisturizer and hydroquinone.
4. Cetaphil & Neutrogena Healthy Defense daily moisturizer.

What I meant was that they did not have a group using Cetaphil, Neutrogena, retin-a & hydroquione - so it did not show if the superior results of protocol 1 were due to the Obagi products (rather than Cetaphil/Neutrogena), or the synthesis of retin a & hydroquione.
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Postby teresa » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:02 am

Anyone have a link to the Obagi study just discussed?

Thanks :D
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Postby zachattack » Fri Jan 09, 2009 10:47 am

Yes, I would like to look at this study as well. Kadee presented a very convincing explanation of the quality and efficacy of the Obagi products when used in conjunction with the scripts, but if the four protocols were in fact as j-lynn listed them, then it wouldn't seem that the study proved much. Even if hydro + tretinoin was used by one of the OTC groups, it's still not really a great comparison. Why not include OTC competitor products that contain the same actives. A true comparison would include a toner, alpha-hydroxy, vitamin-c, etc.

I actually hopped on to this board because I've started to do a "poor man's obagi" and was hoping to come across just such a discussion for a little insight. In any case, Obagi seems to be working quite well for Kadee! Talk about flawless skin! :)
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Postby KadeeBelleMD2B » Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:59 pm

thanks!

I will try to find the study, as there are two versions, the published, and the one I got from an OBAGI rep which was mainly what i'm referencing... :)

ZA - i think a "poor mans" obagi si great, if one can get good products that are all together pH balanced... as I discussed with miss j (maybe on this thread, or not?!)
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Postby j-lynn » Wed Jan 14, 2009 2:52 pm

The published peer-reviewed study is at this address (not sure how to make it a link) - http://www.obagi.com/documents/cosmetic ... l_2006.pdf
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