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A question close to my heart. I've found it's very easy for surgeons to accidentally make the upper lip longer. Before my (*bitter laugh*) journey began I had a nice, normal-looking upper lip. After jaw work and two nose jobs my upper lip's noticeably longer and edges me towards 'ugly' territory. You can see this happen to many celebrities, MJ being the most notable.
Part of my revision involved lifting my columella. My surgeon and I assumed the upper lip would go along for the ride. Anything but. My upper lip looks even longer ever since. Please correct me if I'm wrong but bringing down the base of the nose wouldn't shorten the lip, surely? Wouldn't the lip stay the same length and just get pushed downwards?!
In Photoshop the lowered nose would take up some of that space in the upper lip but I doubt that would be reflected in actual surgery. I'd guess a lip lift, in addition to the nose surgery, would be necessary to get the desired result.
Sorry, I know so little about terminology with rhinos, or what can even be accomplished with surgery, but do you mean the tip? Bringing the tip further out or down? (don't laugh if I don't know what I am talking about here).
Sometimes when people have their (tips?) shortened or raised, they notice that the nose to lip distance is quite far. They always had it, but they didn't notice it before. So I guess it could work the other way?
I agree with Jimmy, that you could have a lip lift if this is a concern for you.
Same here ~ I need a lip lift done by someone who's mastered them. Before my revision, plastic surgeons noticed my long upper lip. Since my revision everyone notices it (and not in a good way...) . And as I'd said my upper lip was a completely normal length on my untampered face; in scaled b/a profile photos you can see the mms of added length after a) surgery to remove plates and screws from initial jaw surgery and b) again after my rhino revision.
I wear a stubble-beard to distract attention from it and I've had it said more than a few times, "you might look much more attractive if you shaved once in a while!". So I shave and I get told "mmmm, maybe better keep the beard..." Yeah, ok, thanks...
I had a bullhorn LL, which is where they remove a strip of skin horizontally, directly under the nose. So the skin is lifted, and as well the doctor rotates the lip in such a way that the vermilion is pulled out so you see more red show. Also gives you more tooth show. In my case, I had lost tooth show completely when in repose, and now have some back, although not much.
I am happy with my lift, but now I notice my chin seems long. But I don't understand why, as my long upper lip was due to aging, and not something I had when I was younger. So it seems this should have brought me back to where I once was (to a point, as I'll explain in a minute), so not sure why my face would seem off balance now.
The problem with the bullhorn, is that you are only going to be pulling up the skin directly under the nose. Only the width of the base of the nose. So as it is you risk having a bit of a rabbit look, if you know what I mean? It all depends on just how wide your nose is as well as your mouth! Your outer corners are not lifted, just the center, and then as far past the center on each side as your nose reaches.
I love my doctor and he's been great with all of my surgeries, but with this one I do wish I had gone to someone who specializes in lls, or at least does more of them. My doctor took more skin dead center under my nose, so that even FURTHER accentuates the bunny look. Plus, I personally don't think he rotated my lip enough and I have so much more red show still hidden in my mouth. All this lip going to waste I feel.
This would all bother me much more if I were younger, but for now, at almost 50, I am still much happier than I was before my lift. Also, (this is good and bad I guess), at my age it won't hold as long, just like a face lift...I am continuing to age and gravity taking its tole more than someone younger. So I will need another one in a few years. When I get that one I am doing more research, and I want a corner lift as well. My worry is I do not want to look like the joker, so it won't be easy figuring this out.
I do think the bullhorn is a very successful procedure overall. It is the only one I have any experience in so it is the only one I can say much about. I know my doctor considered taking the strip out right above my lip instead, but can't remember why he didn't do that now. I do think it might have been better to address more of my lip, and give me more red show. I think he was worried about the scar,and I do have scar tissue all over my lips (deep inside them), from picking skin there. I've been doing it since age 7. So maybe it would have affected the incision.
I remember after I had mine done, which I was awake, the nurse showed me the strip of skin and she said "look, he took more in the center so you have a cupid's bow!" I remember being really excited, in my drunken haze... but later it dawned on me that taking more means even more bunny look.
Love my doctor, but in this case, unless he has done a lot more in the two years, I would not recommend him for the LL, but I'd say to find someone who really does a lot of them. (Haworth is supposed to be great, but I'm sure he's not the only one! But, he is tempting, but I've heard good and bad.)
My scar is great, he did a wonderful job of that. In one week I was able to cover it with Dermablend cover up and no one could see it. It got brighter, as that's how I do scars, but then it eventually faded to white. You can barely see it now and only if you are up looking for it, and I don't cover it at all.
I thought for a while that it pulled my nose down a little, but I realize now that it did not.
I went from 18mm to 12mm. Now I am maybe 14mm due to simple aging and being 47 so it happens fast. This is measuring from that "cupid's bow" center. LOL. The very outer corners are much lower, and to the left and right of the bow, it gradually goes down.
I sound like I'm unhappy, and I'm really not. I think it is a great procedure, I just expected a bit more I guess. My doctor would not go in and fix, as I do give him credit that he refuses to go to the point where I look "done." I do tend to want absolute perfection, and if it were up to me I'd be back in having things fixed weekly...and he knows this.
I really should say in defense of my doctor, that I may be being extremely picky, as well as I never should have expected pretty lips. I didn't have the starting point to have "pretty" lips. I have seen so many befores and afters of the bullhorn, and even with the slightly "bunny" look, they look beautiful. So much comes down to what you have to work with. Someone with fuller lips will look better, as I assume I would have looked better having this done when I was younger. My lips were never really very full, but certainly more than they are now at my age...
In my case, "much better than I had" is what I got, when maybe I was expecting "beautiful."
As far as the lip distance, I am happy with that and it did take a few years off my face i think.
Annie, Thanks so much for the very thorough and enlightening response.
One reason I'm considering Frankel for my rhino is that he (or his colleagues) do ll's as well. The pics on his site are evidence of what appears to be successful rhinos and ll's imo (I believe they were done during same surgery, which which also make me nervous).
My upper lip measures 25mm from base of nose to top of vermillion . It is dead straight in profile (no natural inward 'C' curve) all thanks to jaw and nose surgery . It used to be at least 5mm shorter with inward curve ~ ie I used to have a normal upper lip. So you can understand my need to get this fixed and get it fixed right!
One surgeon a few years ago suggested filler for the vermillion to attempt to address this ~ he noticed my lip and said it was the main flaw in my features. Pleased to report I refused his kind offer to make me look weirder.
You're very welcome guys. Glad to be of any help, but I wish I knew a little bit more about the variations of LLs, as there are several.
Pesticle, that would certainly be the best way to go as far as convenience, to have the rhino with the LL. I know that some people who have LLs have problems when they smile as well as nostrils being pulled down (which I thought I had but realize I imagined it due to power of suggestion. Looking at my older pics, my nostrils always looked weird), so I always thought they did them separately (but I could be remembering wrong). I figure a doctor like Frankel is probably having much success, however he's going about it though. My "research" was well over 2 1/2 years ago and I have no idea what they can do nowadays. I'm sure they've come a long way.
Jimmy, good thing you did not go for that filler. Having a go at filler was what made me realize I needed a lip lift. It looked really bad. I had it done out of state with a friend, who knew the owner of a "spa" blah, blah, blah. We went on a whim. I figured how bad could lip filler be even if it didn't turn out? I wanted to cry I looked so silly. I looked like a clown. Got home and sucked it up and went to my PS and he told me that plumped up lips just don't look right when you have a longer upper lip area. Natural lips are different, even if they are full. But "plumped up" lips look silly.
I have kind of a small face, so my 18 mm might have been in proportion to your 25. Or close to it.
If I were you I'd really look into it, but do your shopping for a good doc. It is a pretty simple procedure, actually, as far as being able to be awake, in office, but requires great skill on the part of the surgeon.
I am so sorry you had this happen due to having a jaw and rhino surgery. I can imagine how upset you are.
My PS also keeps a stubble/light mustache look, which he told me is to cover his longer upper lip. I took a good look and yes, it is very long, but that stubble really helps because I never would have noticed.
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