Hey Everyone! I really like these doctors but I haven't talked to any revision patients of theres. Is there anyone willing to pm me if you have gone through surgery with these guys? I like them but I want to make sure I am not rushing into anything because this will be a revision rhinoplasty which is soo much more riskier. I have had a skype consulation with them but I want to talk to actual patients of theirs. I have talked to a few but not alot of people want to share pictures. As much as I trust these people I still want to see proof that number one, they actually had surgery and number 2, that its not a company paid to put great comments up about these doctors. The proof is in the pudding!

Anyone willing to share their experience would be awesome!

IMO these docs are marketing geniuses because from everything I have seen, it looks like they have a LOT of internet trolls that post amazing narratives on how fantastic these Docs are. Most of the Yelp reviews (all 5 star perfection of course) look to me like they are written by the same people. The writing style, punctuation, phrases, etc are VERY VERY similar. Everyone has an individual writing style and there is just too much similarity and claims of absolute perfection every time for me to believe.

They also have a lot of chat room trolls that post how amazing the results are.

I have NEVER SEEN ONE patient's before/afters from them that is a REAL person and not an internet troll.

Personally, I would stay far away just from the well orchestrated hype.........seeing is believing and I see nothing but words all over with no photos.

I used to get in a lot of 'trouble' asking for photo documentation to validate claims...both good/negative results.

I do see some Bias on this board -in that 'patients' of some Docs are never asked for photos while patients of other Docs are.

This is suspicious to me.

kam214 wrote:IMO these docs are marketing geniuses because from everything I have seen, it looks like they have a LOT of internet trolls that post amazing narratives on how fantastic these Docs are. Most of the Yelp reviews (all 5 star perfection of course) look to me like they are written by the same people. The writing style, punctuation, phrases, etc are VERY VERY similar. Everyone has an individual writing style and there is just too much similarity and claims of absolute perfection every time for me to believe.

They also have a lot of chat room trolls that post how amazing the results are.

I have NEVER SEEN ONE patient's before/afters from them that is a REAL person and not an internet troll.

Personally, I would stay far away just from the well orchestrated hype.........seeing is believing and I see nothing but words all over with no photos.

Wow, that's classy.

If anyone has any specific questions about the docs or my revision they can pm me. I've already answered a ton of private messages. I had a great experience with them and I am not an "internet troll". Not everyone in recent recovery from surgery feels like posting photos - sorry.

kam214 wrote:IMO these docs are marketing geniuses because from everything I have seen, it looks like they have a LOT of internet trolls that post amazing narratives on how fantastic these Docs are. Most of the Yelp reviews (all 5 star perfection of course) look to me like they are written by the same people. The writing style, punctuation, phrases, etc are VERY VERY similar. Everyone has an individual writing style and there is just too much similarity and claims of absolute perfection every time for me to believe.

They also have a lot of chat room trolls that post how amazing the results are.

I have NEVER SEEN ONE patient's before/afters from them that is a REAL person and not an internet troll.

Personally, I would stay far away just from the well orchestrated hype.........seeing is believing and I see nothing but words all over with no photos.

Another factor is that those docs are only about 2-3 years in practice and perhaps the lack of unhappy outcomes (during that short time period mind you) somehow 'translates' into a conclusion that they must be amazingly good. LOL

Now as for being able to identify writing styles so that you have reason enough to believe all the entries are coming from the same person/people, that will serve you well in identifying misrepresentation on the net as to protect yourself from it. A lot of people don't have that ability. I'm not saying these S&L guys are doing it (have not really looked at those reviews). Just saying that misrepresentation via multiple screen names whether it be doctors astroturfing glowing reviews or patients astroturfing complaints is an incredibly big threat to using the net for information. A smart person does not really have to worry about being suckered in by stuff like that. But still, makes you wonder how many stupid people are out there clueless to notice stuff like that. LOL

vwmumofone wrote:Wow, that's classy.

If anyone has any specific questions about the docs or my revision they can pm me. I've already answered a ton of private messages. I had a great experience with them and I am not an "internet troll". Not everyone in recent recovery from surgery feels like posting photos - sorry.

Get a grip............

I have also noticed their patients are very defensive, case in point.

I was posting my OBSERVATIONS from other chat rooms and this forum. Sorry if I missed your review........and I don't see that you have posted pics to anyone. You said you answered PMs. Once again, LOTS of people SAYING they are great but not SHOWING it to anyone.

My 2 cents.

Thanks Kam and everyone for replying. I deffintely will look into these doctors further before proceding with any surgery. I fell for a doctor based on hype the last time and I will not be fooled again by creative marketing! Vwmomofone I would love to see pictures of your outcome. If you have any positive feedback on these doctors I would love for you to pm me. Pictures would help too if you don't mind.

ced02286- I had primary rhino with this doctors almost 4 weeks ago and I don't feel comfortable posting pictures here yet because I still have a little bit of a hump (swelling?) and I don't know if I'll ever post pic here

I have my 4 week post op follow up tomorrow morning with them at 10:30am so for anyone who would be willing to make the trip there I would gladly show you how my nose looks so far I really don't know how it will look in a few months from now but all I can say is that so far I'm very happy that I finally did my nose job and that it was what I had asked for.

Kam I think you might be right..

I dont need a picture but I would love to skype with anyone who has had surgery with these guys. This way no pictures are sent and everyone stays private

I'm having a revision with them in a couple weeks. I'm nervous as hell and reading this is making me even more nervous. I chose them over a few others I saw. I know what you mean about seeing actual patient photos. I have not seen any either...although I did meet two women at my consultation back in October...one had just gotten their nose done (she flew from london) and the other was having a second consultation. Turned out the woman having the consultation was on this message board and we exchanged usernames. I kept in touch with her and she did end up liking her nose. She didn't want to send any photos...so I don't know what it looks like, I'm just going by what she said. There were two other people that kept in touch with me from here that are happy with their noses...again though no photos. Actually one of them wasn't that excited, but ended up liking it after the swelling went down....again no photos....it is very frustrating and nerve racking. So I hope they don't screw up and I end up with a normal and great looking nose. I will keep everyone posted and let you know how it goes. I'll put up photos of my before and afters....so at least you'll have mine to look at To Kam, I don't know what reviews your seeing and where because I had been looking everywhere for reviews on these guys and they really didn't have too many. One I found on Yelp and a couple on Ratemd. So they actually don't have that many. I know they're also fairly new...in practice together for about 3 years now.

There are people posting experience and even some photos on this site. Just use the search function, and it's not too hard to find. These guys are great. I had the same questions, concerns, but to be honest if you talk to the doctors, office, or patients you'll understand they aren't posting fake posts. My experience has been great, and yes these guys are younger, but I think at the perfect age to get great results. From what I learned researching, they have over 3 years experience together, and another 3 years of private practice apart. It also explains why they are web marketing and active. They are smart guys I work in healthcare, and these are the type of guys you find to be excited, dedicated, and passionate. Also, they both trained under leading experts in rhino.

Of course, no office is perfect, IMO these guys have a low risk. Do your homework and talk to a bunch of docs. YOu'll get a sense of what you want by meeting and talking to docs. Keep them on your short list though.

BTW People don't post photos for many reasons. I think a Skype discussion or phone discussion might be a good approach for those people. They are out there, and the office had a boat load of photos to show at in-person consults.

^^^ S&L had a TON (I believe around 18) of ONLY five star reviews that were...key word "were" on Yelp.com........annnnnnnnddddddd now all of a sudden they are GONE???? WTF?? They were there about 3 weeks ago!

They still have 11 ONLY four star perfect reviews (vitals max is 4 stars) of the same mostly phony over the top reviews on vitals:
http://www.vitals.com/doctors/Dr_Jason_ ... ml#reviews

There was a psycho poster on the purse forum rhinoplasty thread and she was obviously a promoter. I accused her of writing fake reviews and said the yelp reviews looked fake too.........now they are all GONE?

Here is the same psycho but it gives you an idea of their supposed "clients"
http://www.plasticsurgeryspot.com/nose- ... itner.html

NO ONE ever wants to post photos.......I mean with ALL these amazed patients that praise the soil these two guys walk on and NO ONE wants to show their work off??? Anyone can have a good photo gallery online or in office.......it is called Photoshop.

I think they are super nice so people don't write bad reviews per se if they are not happy but I do not think their ability is anything what these invisible "patients" want to make us believe. Great marketers: yes, without a doubt..........they will eventually be burned when the truth starts coming out that these reviews are mostly BS.

I think that they may BE decent Docs; however, the fact that these reviews are 90% BS would make me steer clear. Good Doctors don't need hype and marketing. Their WORK sells itself.

Kam,

I was the one that got to skype with her. She is a real patient of theirs. She is not a promoter. She is super sweet and didnt want to post photos but to prove she was real she skyped with me. It was a primary for her though and the changes were subtle. I really couldnt tell a huge difference in her befores and afters but the fixed her breathing and shaved a bump I believe. I want to talk to revision patients though. People that had complicated work done.

Thanks for looking out for me though..I can see why you would be skeptical..

AmandaPine (the poster you are talking about) was trolling all over the internet on every kind of forum and acting crazy.....posting literally 5-8 posts back to back to back.

She had the OPPOSITE effect she wanted. She made everyone annoyed and NOT wanting to go near those Docs. Lousy for them.....seriously

As I said, they very well may be really good Docs, but they have not been around long enough for me and their reviews that WERE on Yelp just seemed like they were all written by the same 2-3 people that tried to make the reviews look different but did not succeed.